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Plaid’s Zach Perret on Visa, valuations and privacy



When Plaid won TechCrunch Disrupt 2013’s Hackathon, it wasn’t even Plaid yet. The team was building a web app that let users view their credit card and debit card transactions on a map. But in the process, they figured out how to solve the challenge of integrating banks with the app, planting the seeds of Plaid. Since then, the startup has taken a journey full of twists and turns, including its scuppered acquisition by Visa, followed by a funding round that put it at a $13.4 billion valuation, to the lows of a privacy class action lawsuit and layoffs last year. In a wide-ranging conversation at this year’s Disrupt, founder Zach Perret talked candidly about all those topics.

Saying hi (and bye) to Visa

On January 13, 2020, Visa announced that it was acquiring Plaid for $5.3 billion or 2x its final private valuation. Twelve months later, the deal was over.

While it was widely reported that Visa walked away because of an antitrust investigation by the Department of Justice, Perret says, “We worked very closely with Visa on this ultimately, and it became a mutual decision, which is where we wanted to land it.”

The initial decision to sell Plaid was the hardest Perret says he’s ever made. “Visa had amazing products. They had a great distribution, amazing relationships with banks. There were so many logical reasons plus the price was very, very good.”

But there were a lot of reasons not to sell, and ultimately Plaid’s leadership team was split “51-49” in favor of the decision.

“As an entrepreneur, you love building your company. There’s the personal reason. There’s also the business reason that we could potentially build a bigger company and we went through this intense debate. I invited our entire leadership team over to my house. We were sitting in my living room here in San Francisco having this debate, and there was no clear answer.”

Perret ultimately made the decision to sell, saying it was “the best thing for our mission and for our customers for us to scale within another platform.”

Two months after the deal was announced, the pandemic hit. In an amazing act of foresight, the contract for the all-cash deal had a clause that said Visa couldn’t get out of it even if there was a pandemic.

“So we feel like we’re geniuses,” Perret says. “We’ve just done the best deal, the markets crash, we’ve got a price locked in on the pandemic clause.” The fintech market was also experiencing a boom as more people moved to digital banking.

Then the DOJ started the long process of investigating Visa for antitrust issues.

“They gave us the signals that it was going to take quite a long time to stay in it. The reality is we could have stayed in the transaction for a lot longer,” says Perret. “But when we got 12 months into it, our business was very different. We’d had this massive growth. We’ve had a huge brand moment from Visa announcing the deal.”

So in early 2021, Perret brought his leadership team back to his house (masked this time). This time the decision to call off the deal was unanimous. “Everybody said, we want to walk away. We believe that companies hit better independently. Then started the hard part. By the way, the next six months were the most sleepless six months I’ve ever had, because you have to get everyone at the company refocused on the mission, the independent path where we’re going. But that time was a really heady time.”

Hitting $13.4 billion valuation

Less than three months after the deal with Visa was called off, Plaid announced it had raised $425 million, led by Altimeter Capital, at a valuation of $13.4 billion. Perret says that Plaid didn’t need the money because of the failed acquisition. “Fortunately we had a lot of cash going into the deal and exiting the deal. We were a very efficient business, we weren’t burning much.”

Since then, however, the market has been tough on companies with high valuations.

“In terms of valuation, we don’t comment on it,” says Perret. “But frankly we don’t know what the valuation actually would be. We know what the internals of the company are, the product suite has expanded. We understand the relative growth rate that we’ve seen year on year and has continued to stay really high. We’ve seen the market continue to grow.”

Perret adds that Plaid doesn’t plan to raise again for the foreseeable future and has “quite a lot of runway, I don’t know the exact number, but our breakeven target is relatively soon.” But if the company does decide to raise, “we will raise capital at whatever the valuation.”

“I’m not egotistical about the valuation; the valuation is what it is,” says Perret. “You don’t even determine it, the market determines it. I am very egotistical about and care a lot about the long-term valuation, the 10- to 20-year valuation.”

Market turns and layoffs

In December 2022, Plaid laid off 260 employees, or about 20% of its workforce. At that time, Perret said in a letter to employees that the company hired aggressively during COVID to meet a rapid increase in usage by existing customers, a large number of new customers and “substantial revenue acceleration.” But the market changed and Plaid began to experience “slower-than-expected growth.”

Onstage, Perret says that “selling a company is the hardest decision that an entrepreneur ever makes; doing a force reduction was probably the second hardest decision for me. It certainly felt that way. Our job is to do our best to predict the future and also be realistic with the realities on the ground.”

The year 2021 was one of rapid growth for Plaid, with its customers wanting to expand into other markets, especially Europe. But that sentiment turned in 2022, and many canceled their international expansion plans, which meant the layoffs especially affected Plaid’s team in Europe.

“I’ve been energized by how the team has taken that very seriously but also moved on to think about the next phase, the next focus,” Perret says. “It’s in some sense built a bit of a frugal culture within the company, a bit more of a focus culture and I think people appreciate the long-term orientation of that kind of decision.”

User privacy

In July 2022, Plaid agreed to pay $58 million to settle a class action lawsuit by consumers who claimed the company accessed private data from payment apps without their consent.

When asked what lessons he learned from the lawsuit, Perret says, “Look, we’ve always been very focused on building the tools that customers need. So the thesis is a consumer wants to use their bank account digitally, they need to apply for a loan, let’s say, and how do you connect your existing bank account into that loan application? Let’s say you’re applying for a loan at the Lending Club and you have a Chase checking account. How do you connect the two? That’s what we build. And the way we think about our mission is unlocking financial freedom for everyone.”

Perret added that “we haven’t changed our data practices. Our data practices have always been very focused on what’s best for the consumer. We’ve improved, we’ve added features, so on and so forth. The core concept of protecting consumer data and ensuring that consumers are getting access to the products they want, while being protected on the back end. That’s very core to us, both from a security and a privacy standpoint. That’s never changed.”

One critic of Plaid’s data practices is Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase. The year before the lawsuit settlement, Dimon specifically named the startup when talking to analysts about fintech players, saying “people who improperly use data that’s been given to them, like Plaid.”

“I deeply admire Jamie,” says Perret. “I’m really impressed by the incredible things that he’s built over so many years. But the reality is that we enable competition in financial services. We enable competition for the banks.”

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Intrepid spacecraft beams back vivid photo before moon landing




An uncrewed private spacecraft has reached the moon’s orbit, one day ahead of its attempt to land at the lunar south pole.

Intuitive Machines’ robotic spacecraft, which launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on Feb. 15, beamed back a view of the near side of the moon to flight controllers just six days later. The craft took a speedier path through space to get to the moon than its predecessors over the past year.

On Wednesday, the spacecraft completed its planned main engine burn to get into a circular orbit about 57 miles above the moon. NASA and its contractor intend to broadcast the landing on their respective websites. The event is scheduled for 5:49 p.m. ET Feb. 22.

“Odysseus continues to be in excellent health,” the company said on X, formerly known as Twitter, referring to its name for the lander.

If Intuitive Machines touches down without crashing, it will be the first U.S. spacecraft to complete the quarter-million-mile journey since the last Apollo mission in 1972. Though NASA isn’t controlling this spaceflight and doesn’t own Odysseus, the agency is paying the company $118 million to deliver six instruments to the moon, among other customers’ payloads.

The proposed landing site is Malapert A crater, just under 200 miles from the south pole. Several spacefarers have set their sights on this general region because of its ice. The natural resource, thought to be buried in permanently shadowed craters, is coveted because it could supply drinking water, oxygen, and rocket fuel for future space voyages.

Throughout history, about half of lunar landing attempts have failed, and only one out of three missions that tried to touch down on the moon in 2023 made it without a crash.

Odysseus, the Intuitive Machines’ moon lander, takes a photo of Earth in space.
Credit: Intuitive Machines

Already this year, another NASA contractor, Astrobotic Technologies, tried to get to the moon but never reached lunar orbit due to a detrimental fuel leak discovered early in the flight. In January, Japan became the fifth nation ever to land a spacecraft on the moon, but not without incident: It got there upside down and suffered significant power-generation problems.

NASA selected Intuitive Machines as one of several vendors for its Commercial Lunar Payload Services initiative to explore the moon over the next few years. The program has recruited the private sector to help deliver cargo, conduct experiments, and demonstrate new technology, as well as send back crucial data. Through these contracts, NASA wants to see a regular cadence of moon missions to prepare for astronauts’ return to the moon in 2026 or later.

“What we’ve asked industry to do, which is soft land and operate on the moon’s surface, is not easy at all. It’s extremely difficult, as you probably have seen for lunar landing attempts just in the month of January,” said Joel Kearns, NASA’s deputy associate administrator for exploration, during a call with reporters.

No commercial company has achieved this feat so far, although a few have tried.

SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket upper stage deploys Intuitive Machines’ Nova-C lander, aka “Odysseus,” in space.
Credit: SpaceX

Landing on the moon is hard because its exosphere — an extremely thin atmosphere of gasses barely held by the moon’s gravity — provides virtually no drag to slow a spacecraft down as it approaches the ground. Furthermore, there are no GPS systems on the moon to help guide a craft to its landing spot.

Despite numerous failures anticipated from the new, inexperienced players in space exploration, people can expect to be dazzled by their cosmic views, such as the stunning Intuitive Machines images of the past week.

“Pretty cool when a lunar lander takes a picture of its ride to space!” SpaceX said in a post on X last week. “Wishing @Int_Machines and IM-1 a safe and soft landing on the Moon.”

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How to watch the moon landing live: See the Intuitive Machines landing attempt




We might be watching a historic moon landing today.

Intuitive Machines’ IM-1 spacecraft, the uncrewed Odysseus, could potentially land on the surface of the Moon on Feb. 22 at around 4:24 p.m. ET, after an eight-day journey through space. While we can’t be completely sure that the landing will be successful, on Wednesday Intuitive Machines said Odysseus “continues to be in excellent health in lunar orbit.”

You can watch the official stream on Intuitive Machines’ site, on NASA’s website, NASA Television, the NASA app, or on NASA+. You can also keep up by following blog updates on NASA’s website. The live coverage begins at around 3:00 p.m. ET, will continue through the potential landing, and ends with a news conference held by NASA.

The spacecraft is expected to land near Malapert A crater in the south pole region of the moon.

Odysseus launched on Feb. 15 on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center. Its landing would make the first commercial moon landing and is quite the feat. Landing on the moon is an infamously difficult task for a variety of reasons, including the lack of GPS systems and atmospheric drag. Only five countries, including the former Soviet Union, the U.S., China, India, and Japan, have landed on the moon without a significant wreck.

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U.S. company makes history with first commercial moon landing




A small American company’s robotic spacecraft has brought the United States back to the surface of the moon for the first time in more than a half-century.

Intuitive Machines, a Houston-based space company, landed on Thursday, becoming the first commercial company to reach the moon intact. The unprecedented achievement is a win for NASA, which has invested $2.6 billion in contracts with Intuitive Machines and several other vendors to deliver instruments to the moon over the next four years.

It wasn’t all smooth sailing. A few hours before the landing, flight controllers discovered the spacecraft’s laser rangefinders, which help it avoid hazards on the ground, weren’t working. The team decided to take one more lap around the moon, which bought engineers a couple more hours to troubleshoot the problem. During that orbit, they uploaded a software patch to use onboard NASA lasers, which hadn’t previously been tested in space.

Then, there were some communication challenges, but NASA was quick to call the landing a success, even before a photo was beamed back to Earth.

“Today, for the first time in the history of humanity, a commercial company — an American company — launched and led the voyage up there,” said NASA administrator Bill Nelson in a pre-recorded message during the broadcast. “Today is a day that shows the power and promise of NASA’s commercial partnerships.”

The moon lander dubbed Odysseus touched down on Malapert A crater, about 200 miles from the lunar south pole, just before 6:30 p.m. ET. Many nations and private ventures have set their sights on the region because of its ice, thought to be buried in the polar craters. The natural resource is coveted because it could supply drinking water, air, and rocket fuel for future missions, ushering a new era in spaceflight.

The success lends legitimacy to the Commercial Lunar Payload Services initiative (CLPS), a private sector recruitment program to support NASA’s lunar ambitions. Through several contracts, the U.S. space agency wants to establish a regular itinerary of moon missions to prepare for putting Artemis astronauts on the moon in 2026 or later.

Thomas Zurbuchen, NASA’s former head of science, once described each of the first CLPS endeavors as “taking a shot on goal.” The sports analogy means not every attempt will be victorious, but overall the program will give NASA a lot of chances to achieve its moon-to-Mars goals. By outsourcing NASA’s lunar deliveries — rather than fully owning each mission — the agency believes it will save money. The contract with Intuitive Machines for this mission was $118 million.

Odysseus, the Intuitive Machines spacecraft, passes over the near side of the moon on Feb. 21, 2024.
Credit: Intuitive Machines

“We don’t know how many of the early attempts will be successful,” said Joel Kearns, NASA science’s deputy associate administrator for exploration, during a news conference in November. “But I can tell you that these American companies are technically strong and rigorous, savvy, they’re resourceful, and they’re driven to be successful. They want to secure that first mover advantage in generating this new lunar economy.”

But observers have questioned how cost-effective the initiative will truly be, given the riskiness of flying on inexperienced spacelines. In January, Astrobotic Technologies, the first of the CLPS vendors, tried to get to the moon, but never reached lunar orbit due to a detrimental fuel leak. NASA spent $108 million on that mission and lost five payloads in the process.

“If we’re flying missions at one-tenth of the cost of a NASA mission, and we fail two of them, we still get eight missions for that same price,” Kearns said in a pre-recorded statement during the landing broadcast. “Even with one or two or three failures, this is still a very economical proposition.”

Intuitive Machines’ Odysseus moon lander snaps a photo of Bel’kovich K crater, a 30-mile-wide pit with mountains in the center from lunar orbit.
Credit: Intuitive Machines

The likelihood of success, especially for novice space programs, is still slim. Historically, less than half of all missions to land on the moon have arrived without crashing. The lunar exosphere — an extremely thin atmosphere of gasses barely held by the moon’s gravity — provides virtually no drag to slow a spacecraft down as it approaches the ground. Furthermore, there are no GPS systems on the moon to help guide a craft to its landing spot. Engineers have to compensate for these shortcomings from 239,000 miles away.

Over the past five years, the private sector has tried and failed. An Israeli nonprofit and company collaborated in 2019 on the so-called Beresheet moon mission, which crashed on the lunar surface after an orientation component malfunctioned. Last April, Japanese startup ispace ran out of fuel on its descent and ultimately crashed. Astrobotic’s Peregrine lander never made it that far and ultimately broke apart as it crashed back to Earth.

But Intuitive Machines’ landing could instill confidence in the burgeoning lunar economy.

“I know this was a nail biter, but we are on the surface, and we are transmitting,” said Stephen Altemus, Intuitive Machines’ CEO. “Welcome to the moon.”

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